sageprincess: (Ocarina of Time)
Zelda ([personal profile] sageprincess) wrote2021-03-04 01:29 pm
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How's my driving? Am I doing this princess the justice she deserves? Feel free to leave me concrit and I'll do what I can to improve!
unidentify: lacrima No-11 (faded sort of brilliance)

[personal profile] unidentify 2013-06-08 10:42 pm (UTC)(link)
Psssaah, I'm not even going to bother with anon; you know who I am and what's more I said I'd do this anyway. We're friends, we've known each other for years now, which is why I'm not going to bother dressing this up. I mean no slight against you or any other mun/character mentioned here; these are simply my observations from relatively 'outside' point of view. Pardon me if this gets rambly, as I'm awful at being short about these sorts of things.

The Resistance is hard to get involved in. That's fact. Pandora is nigh inaccessible to anyone outside of CR or those nosy and obvious in their snooping, and whether it's an IC, OOC, or combination of both problem this remains the way things are. I've noticed you try to do your best to accommodate people who tag you and everything, but it honestly feels like unless a character already had close ties or is throwing themselves REALLY HARD at Zelda (hi Asch thank you for swearing loyalty?!) they're not going to get anywhere, and many characters aren't the sort to do that either. OOCly people are going to feel shut out by this when Pandora's played up as such a large part of things; ICly characters will putter in circles ineffectually, begin to harbor resentment for those of the resistance, or just get angry that some shadowy group of people would dare to fight on their behalf without first consulting their wishes- we've seen this much already in the fallout. (Hi Kariya hi /chinhands) Even the intentions of Pandora aren't really all that clear to anyone outside of the know.

The OOC problem of the Masquerade failing to inform people properly could be solved with an OOC post: "hey, sorry, in light of the Glamour Failure I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed with all these tags; if your character had/wanted to talk to Zelda at some point assume they would have been told not to worry about the chips," etc etc something like that. Most people are understanding and'll be fine so long as things are communicated like that; the people who don't, well, it's not on you to worry about their reactions.

Actually, a lot of things, regardless of how you tackle the rest of the problem, would be alleviated by keeping everyone up to date on "hey this thing might affect you guys heads up." You did that with Chip Chip Revolution but that was in the beginning of the month; maybe later around the time of the Masquerade, you could've reminded "hey something big's probably going to happen guys even if I don't know what" since it's easy to skim over something from earlier in the month and disregard it as irrelevant to current things. You can't change the fact that some players just won't look, but being very transparent on the OOC side of things when it comes to big plot things will help.

IC problems though... here we go. Of the three 'leaders' of the rebellion, we have Tohko, who has no fucking idea what she's doing because she's a Normal who got dragged into the thick of things and is trying to keep up and adjust the best she can; we have Enoch, who I can't really get a good read on other than Idealistic/Optimistic Nice Guy Protagonist with Biblical References and Angels For Friends who keeps a close circle of friends but is actually sort of naive and trusting when it comes to people; and we have Zelda, who's fought an entirely different sort of battle of stealth of her own, where Ganondorf presumably wasn't hovering over everyone's shoulder and keeping a eye on every last thing and where One Fated Hero actually could change the tide of things.

There are no such heroes in the Tower.

Okay, okay, dramatics aside, that's still true. There's no hero destined to take down the Admins. The way they're going about things won't work with this. First things first I think you're going to have to examine your characters' motivations a bit, and see whether they fall more along the lines of "get back at the admins (especially Ruana and Jason) and give them comeuppance- and restore the worlds, which oh yeah everyone else benefits from" or "we, the Tower, will fight back against you. We'll rally the trapped persons here can you hear the voices of the people and free ourselves from this place so that everyone can go home." Because if it's the former, playing up Pandora as The Residents' Rebellion (see this is with a capital T) when it's truly a group of loosely organized independents following Dax's will while claiming that they fight for the users isn't going to end pretty, and even though it'd be really interesting to see the IC factional conflicts in the Tower that arise from that I don't think that's where you want to go with Pandora. With the second, fighting on the behalf of the Tower's residents claiming to do the best thing for them, without their input or any true way for them to be involved... well, in extreme cases you just get likenings to Ruana, who also claims to be doing the best thing for everyone.

But getting a read on that might help figure out the way you want to proceed with this- like if it's the former, you might just want to make it more obvious of a sort that Pandora's an independent faction acting on their own while deluding believing they're acting for the residents and that other players can go and organize things of their own instead of being strung along by Pandora and trying vainly to get into it because it's The One Resistance Group to Rule Them All. There's some impetus on the mods obviously in this case to let those other groups accomplish things too if theoretically something they'd do would do that, else otherwise if Pandora remains the only group doing things we're back to the issue of "only the people involved in this insular, hard to get involved in group can get anywhere in the plot." Buuuut we've already one example in the Villain's Club, and I've been impressed with the modding so far other than a few understandable delays, so. With the second... might want to start working on ideas that'll let Pandora develop in a way to get more people involved.

Okay, incredibly long tangent aside, you're treating the underground movement like it's just that. Underground. Still.

Even after pretty much everyone in it was outed in April.

The Admins Know. They know there's a resistance movement, and they know who's involved, they know who's up to things; trying to be discreet about it won't change the fact that they Know. The Resistance I've noticed has taken to giving their Droid Buddy the slip whenever they want to talk on things, which gives the Admins a blind spot for that time period, but if they have any brains at all they'll notice if people are giving the droids the slip too often and'll know that's something's up anyway.

But they don't know what the resistance is doing, and that's what's key in this. I think you've been spending too much time thinking about how to try to keep this entirely under cloak and dagger, keep everything entirely in the shadows when there really aren't any shadows left to hide in. Like maybe the resistance is spending more of its efforts being stealthy about things than getting things done. All right, they've got things done, the big blow up Glamour Failure of June has outed their presence to the Tower at large and they've definitely made their mark on things, and, I suspect, the way things are going to happen from here on out will be different.

The name of the game has changed.

What's important here is that no sensitive information gets back to the Admins, correct? Delegate. A small group of trusted people 100% in the know trying to do everything isn't going to work, nor is trying to build enough close CR to slowly induct more of these Trusted People 100% In The Know considering we only have a year left now and all the stakes are up. Not everyone involved has to be 100% in the know. Not everyone involved has to be personally involved with the resistance already to feel strongly enough for the cause of fixing things that they wouldn't betray them. Things like "if you want to help, go here, do x and y" can start Pandora being less a clique of Important Characters and more a thing to get involved in, something that would be Real Progress. Don't even have to explain why to those characters, you could make this a shady chain of dealings for all I care. "Classified. Even I don't know; I'm only relaying what the higher-ups tell me. No, I don't know who they are. That's classified too." and I know you've been discussing methods of identification so you're not entirely opening yourself up to just any character going "I'm totally a Pandora rep guys srsly now do this thing that'll screw you over." Actually, it's probably best if any one character involved doesn't know everything, save the leaders, but don't mind me- like everything else I've been saying, I'm just tossing out ideas.

Not all characters'll be fine with just taking on little grunt duties like that at first, but whatever, that's fine- the thing is that they have an in, and have a chance to start building trust. The muns playing the characters would understand too so long as the reasons are clearly just IC lack of acquaintance and not "sorry you're not close enough CR." The key point here is that they've got options now other than "try really really hard to become close CR with someone important."

You've got Strategic Advisor Naoya and Actual Military Commander of Covert/Special Ops Asch on the boat now, alongside others who I may have missed- Jeanne should know how to be a rallying point for soldiers/people involved in a cause, England should remember how covert/intelligence ops work, and this is only from a cursory skim of Zelda's closer circle because hell if I follow all her CR. There are plenty of resources here to work with- human, or not so human really, resources. Zelda might not know how to lead an organization of this sort, but I think she has plenty enough people alongside her who know enough to at least add up to someone who does. Pandora can have a hierarchy! Leaders at the top, close/trusted important ">blanks< of Pandora" a step below, some people less important than those blanks of Pandora below that, then just people peripherally involved in Pandora but actually doing something, like how CR of CR at least managed to place chips.

Hell, it's probably a good idea to find a way to designate someone or someones as Liason(s) to the Tower Populace, because a lot of the IC things I've been seeing fall back on "you're fighting on my behalf without even consulting me?!" a la Femerica and others. Obviously this would take a bit of setup and coordination and ooc communication, but maybe some places could be designated as Pandora Contact places, make it clear that sort of thing could be heard through the grapevine discreetly so the Admins don't get too in the know, with places changing every so often (after all iirc you don't have to be locked to the bathrooms, didn't Dax say as long as you stayed away from the walls you should be fine to discuss things without being overheard?). This could serve as an IC in for people wanting to feel out the resistance and conversely the resistance feeling them out as well, because the resistance has grown since all its members were outed in April, weren't they? If not, then considering how the resistance gives Droidbuddy Ivan and pals the slip often enough anyway to discuss sensitive things there shouldn't be a reason they couldn't do the same here. But of course characters would have to know that Pandora exists, first. (Honestly, all I'm thinking of are silly "pandora wuz her" messages anon on the network or something. Or distributed around or something somehow. Some calling card of a sort would be amusing, even if it could be faked but see that's the fun thing about a panfandom game. I'm sure between that many characters butting heads they could come up with something unique.)

(I remember you discussing the Masquerade room for this sort of usage- masks off people have to tell the truth, so it could be a way for characters on both sides to vet each other. And there has to be someone in the resistance capable enough of illusions and glamours that removing their mask to reveal their face doesn't have to necessarily reveal their identity, right?)

And if none of you can find some ic reason/way to get these adjustments in thinking across just yet, have their current system of "small, slowly expanding group of people trustworthy enough to know most if not everything" blow up hugely on them. The Admins have been brainwashing people since April's event; obviously this depends on getting 'lucky' enough that someone of that initial core Pandora group is signed up and ends up being picked to relay everything, but that sort of thing could shake them enough to rethink their methods. It may or may not break a few in the process, but considering the varied characters involved and how Zelda's just kinda "hahaha yolo/nolo" by this point I'm not too concerned.

You've worried in the past that people are playing with you more to be involved in the plot than to actually play with you/Zelda. Unfortunately, this is unavoidable when Zelda carries, I don't know, about 70-85% of the Plot Ball- you're not going to be able to avoid this. What you can do is elevate some of the other Pandora Leaders (TM) a bit because honestly right now they seem to be accessories to the whole thing; this comes back to a sort of 'transparency' in your resistance group's workings. With more avenues of contact and more IC ins, people aren't going to feel like they need to come to Zelda specifically to get anywhere, and you're not going to need to feel overwhelmed by that. The thing is that right now, Zelda has the biggest ingame presence of the lot. This isn't me just shafting the other two. Tohko to most is that book girl who infodumps basic things about the Tower to newbies on arrival, Enoch... does his own thing, while it's Zelda who's the face of the rebellion.

Did I cover everything? I hope I covered everything. I MEAN I CAN DISCUSS FURTHER BUT THAT'S PROBABLY A BAD IDEA LOOK AT THIS WORD COUNT. I'm sorry, I couldn't take myself entirely seriously throughout this whole thing.

I suppose if there's any one thing I want to emphasize about this, I guess it'd be about OOC transparency- Pandora itself doesn't have to go entirely aboveground, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try to keep other players in the know. If people start complaining then about being blindsided, redirect them to the info posts that you clearly posted "here, see, right there x was discussed and it'd probably cause y or z..."

Feel free to disagree with any of this, really, but if people are speaking up there's likely a problem to be addressed somehow, even if the way you go about doing it may vary.
unidentify: obligatory snark says no though (let me ponder on that)

[personal profile] unidentify 2013-06-08 11:05 pm (UTC)(link)
In light of something that only came to me after writing this up- it occurs to me I've been using "the resistance" and "pandora" interchangeably. Maybe you could also make it clear that Pandora is "a resistance," not "The Resistance" some... how...